If you've been following my blog you might remember that I've been listening to an audible book by David Brooks titled: How to Know a Person: The Art of Seeing Others Deeply and Being Deeply Seen. I'd love to claim that I'm intellectual enough to have known who David Brooks is before I started this book, but I'm not. All I knew was that Bill Gates has the title on his 'Must Read" summer reading recommendations list and that two of his takeaways from the book are about understanding the power of curiosity and how to acquire empathy building skills. After a little more digging I learned that he's a conservative columnist for the New York Times and that Barack Obama is also a fan of David Brook's writing. That was good enough for me to invest my time and money into the book. I fangirl both Gates and Obama.
I was not far into the book when I decided to try out one of the suggestions for how to draw people out when I found myself at a dinner table with The Art Professor and two former child psychiatrists---one is my neighbor who I've nicknamed Robbie's Mom because of her dog. The other psychiatrist at the table I've never written about so let's call her Sarah, which may or may not be her real name. I tried on the nicknames The Caregiver, Liberal Lucy and Sam's Wife (since I know him better than her, having spent six hours teaching him how to play mahjong and having played with him every Wednesday since March). But she is more than all those nicknames as are all my fellow residents who I've given nicknames to.
Anyway, I'm getting off track here. When it came time to ask each other what we did that day (which is always par for the course around here at dinner tables) Sarah shared that she'd taken her husband to the dentist and I replied, "That must have been exhausting." "It was!" she replied and the Art Professor looked confused. "Why was it exhausting?" she asked. Sam is a big guy and Sarah's petite and he's confined to an electric wheelchair and has to transfer in and out of a manual, transport chair for outings. Long story slightly shorter we got into a discussion about how going to public places you never know how steep the incline ramps are or how disability friendly the parking lots and restrooms will be, not to mention pushing a big guy in a chair is hard physically. And Sarah said, "It takes three people to get him out of his transport chair and into the dentist's chair." Then she turned to me and said, "Thank you so much for giving me the opportunity to vent!" Wow, I thought, the book suggestions actually work!
The Art Professor then spoke up to ask how can friends and the community help family caregivers? Sarah hemmed and hawed but didn't say anything so I jumped with, "Time," I suggested. "Offer to sit with a disabled spouse so the caregiver can have a few hours to run an errand or two."
"I had a friend with a disabled husband, "The Art Professor replied, "and she always turned me down when I offered. I guess she didn't really need a break."
"Well, sometimes you worry all the time you're gone from your disabled spouse," I tried to explain, "and it's not always as enjoyable as one might think."
"Worry about what?"
"About what could go wrong. Bathroom issues. Falls. My husband, for example, had swallowing issues," I said, "and could choke to death if he wasn't watched like a hawk." And here's where I was rendered speechless.
"That could be a good thing. It would speed up the dying process and end a caregiver role."
So much for empathy! So much for The Art Professor not noticing that I dropped out of the conversation and was boiling over with ambivalent thoughts. I wanted to both rage at the coldness of her careless and/or callous statement and at the same time I wanted to use it as a teaching moment that might embarrass the crap out of her---and tit-for-tat me would have been happy if it did. It's three days later as I write this and I STILL want to tell The Art Professor that choking on some potato chips a friend let my husband have off his plate was ultimately what killed him. Even though a nurse happened to be close by at the restaurant and preformed the Heimlich to save him that day he unbeknownst had ingested potato chips into his lungs where they caused a fungi to grow and by the time he was hospitalized weeks later it was too late. The fungi had taken over and he died 10-15 minutes after being taken off life support. Yup, choking on his food DID "speed up his dying process" but it was by no means a good thing for me or for him.
That conversation was the only social experiment I did based on David Brook's book but it probably won't be my last. However it will be a while before I strike out again to teach myself to connect with others on a deeper level. Quoting this author: "There is one skill that lies at the heart of any healthy person, family, school, community organization, or society: the ability to see someone else deeply and make them feel seen—to accurately know another person, to let them feel valued, heard, and understood. And yet we humans don’t do this well. All around us are people who feel invisible, unseen, misunderstood." In the course of this one dinner I felt both empowered by helping one of my neighbors be seen but I left that dinner table feeling invisible and if I wasn't a blogger I don't know where I would have dumped the pain and guilt that bubbled back up regarding the way in which Don died. ©
Wow! I'm sorry she was so insensitive. Talk about gut punches. ❤️
ReplyDelete---Cheerful Monk
She didn't mean to be, but it still was a gut punch.
DeleteHugs to you. It is really hard to confront someone when what they said has pierced your heart.
ReplyDeleteThanks, in the moment I couldn't know what to say back.
DeleteI can certainly understand why you were rendered speechless. And I'm sorry that it took you back to such a painful time in your life. It's amazing how thoughtless people can be - no matter what their education or lack of education level is.
ReplyDeleteShe's the kind of person who talks in general terms, never personal antidotes. She likes to start conversations like last night, she asked, "How to we get democrats and republicans to talk to each other?"
DeleteI'm so sorry to learn about this devastating event in your life. There really are no words. Getting to know you more in depth makes me proud to be your online friend. You are strong and wonderful ... in so many ways.
ReplyDeleteYou heard about my plan to pay 50 cents a compliment, didn't you. LoL But seriously we've all experienced things that leave us speechless from time to time. She couldn't have known how close to home that statement came. I don't care how intense a caregiver's role is it's NEVER a good thing to say words to the effect that it was a blessing when their spouse dies. Let the widow or widower come to their own conclusions, in their own time frame. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.
DeleteMaybe Brook's book should be required reading. It seems like our world needs compassion and empathy, more than ever. Although I do not wish for anyone to face physical challenges, they are reality. My eyes were opened following my husband's stroke. Thankfully, he's doing very well, but becoming a caregiver cannot be understood until it is experienced.
ReplyDeleteHopefully, the conversation you had at dinner might spur some of your neighbors to consider how to reach out and help others. When I read what the Art Professor said, I wanted to shake her, but I have friends who don't seem to have a filter when they react. Sometimes it's hard to be around those people, but they are probably struggling with their own issues. Jean, I'm sorry for the painful reminders of how Don died. You handled the situation with grace.
Bill Gates thinks the David Books' book is very timely and needed to bring our society back to civility.
DeleteSarah actually called be afterward and asked if she could come over to my apartment for coffee.
There you go, no matter what the Art Prof said, Sarah received what you had to say. I hope you enjoy each other's company!
DeleteJean, I'm so sorry you were the victim of a careless and thoughtless person. That professor was glib and flippant, speaking in wide general terms, hoping to start a sort of hypothetical discussion rather than taking into consideration that there were two actual human beings there with personal experience directly relating to having disabled spouses. That kind of insensitivity borders on sociopathy. I don't know how you even stayed at the table.
ReplyDeleteThere's no excuse for that kind of beastliness. I do hope that individual is the exception in your community.
It's The Art Professor's "thing" to try to broaden conversations into larger, hypothetical discussions and away from exchanges of anecdotes. She does it in book club and at dinner tables. In this situation she happened to hit raw nerves and she's going blind so she probably missed my body language reaction that she would have picked up on back when she was teaching college students. Like she missed the reaction of another resident when The Art Professor said she had a 'marshmallow body' that kept her from breaking bones during a fall.
DeleteShe's still very active in a large church she and her husband started to help immigrants. Sunday services are in 3-4 languages, they run a food bank and help immigrants with housing and job placement. She's far from a sociopath. But she's definitely a globalist. She seems to think in terms of community rather than individuals within a community---hard to explain but she's interesting to study. I like and admire her but she's finds her share of critics on campus because of her bluntness.
I’m so sorry you had to relive your husband’s death in the midst of that conversation. You did a wonderful thing to show such empathy to the other woman and her experience though.
ReplyDeleteShe came over for coffee a few days later...Sarah. And I'm pretty sure she felt better than when she got here. That felt good or me too.
DeleteI'm glad you shared with your neighbor and connected with her. I hope you get a chance to share your thoughts with the Art Professor one day so she might learn from your experience. It might help her think before she speaks next time.
ReplyDeleteI enjoy David Brooks on my public television station. He always has such thoughtful things to say. I've put a hold on that book from my library. Thanks for the recommendation.
I've decided to let it go with The Art Professor. In order to call her out on it I'd have to explain how Don died and I don't really want to do that. I'm chalking it up to lost filters in our brains and you might want to read what I commented to Nance up above. The Professor was not intentional in her hurtful, callous words.
DeleteOh lord. Some people just seem to have no filter or ability to think about how their brash comments might affect someone else. So sorry you had to relive that.
ReplyDeleteI've been a Brooks fangirl for years and I once stood in line in Holland to hear him speak on a book tour. It's kind of a running joke at my house -- he's one of the people I would consider running off with. Just kidding. I think. Glad you were able to make that connection with Sarah. It's good for both of you!
I'm coming late to the David Books party. I can see why you'd stand in line to hear him speak. I'm listening to the book a second time and wish I'd gotten the paperback instead of audio because it's the kind of book I'd like to underline and highlight in.
DeleteSome people are simply missing the empathy gene..cold and unfeeling, not necessarily bad, nut unrelatable. I’d consider the source. Mary
ReplyDeleteRead what I wrote to Nancy up above. She's got empathy but she aims it globally. She didn't mean it as unfeeling and cold as it came off. I'm sure of that.
DeleteI'm not familiar with David Brooks so thanks for the introduction. I agree that the best approach to meaningful conversations is to make the other person feel seen and appreciated and interesting. As for The Art Professor... some people just don't get how to talk with people... seem to lack the desire or ability to be conversational... and that's who they are.
ReplyDeleteShe's unique and tries to facilitate conversations into broader terms and away from antidote stuff. And she had no way of knowing how my husband died to know how deep her words cut up a wound.
DeleteHoly maloley. I don't think I could have stayed at the table. I suspect, given the very powerful feelings that must have been going through your head, that in the same position I would have burst into tears. She probably thought she was being cute but that certainly was thoughtless and insensitive, particularly given that she was with a widow and woman with a disabled spouse. indicates a certain lack of perspective. You showed grace in not embarrassing her in public but....
ReplyDelete.... For what it's worth, I would find a time, fairly soon, to connect with her one on one and say, "I need to tell you this." I'm sure you could cushion it, if you chose, with "I'm sure you were trying to be glib or funny, but it's important that you understand that for one who has lost the love of their life, that cuts extremely deeply. And though you didn't know this, the situation you mentioned, of choking, was instrumental in my husband's death. We never know how our words will affect someone and I just wanted to share that so you would be more aware in the future, particularly in this environment."
Empathy may not be her thing but that isn't an excuse. And for you to have had the experience of recalling the very sad circumstances leading to Don's death had to be emotionally devastating, as things like that are when they come to us so suddenly and unexpectedly, and not on our terms or timetable.
As for David Brooks, despite being the liberal I am, I adore him. He is wise beyond words and as conservatives go, far more moderate than most. If he was running for president, I'd consider voting for him. Don't let this be your last social experiment. You may have formed a new bond with Sam's wife. And new friends are good.
Thanks for such a thoughtful and though-provoking comment. I've already had Sarah over for coffee and an extended conversation about caregiver issues we have/had in comment.
DeleteDavid Brooks was on Oprah's Soul searchers programs as well as has written what look like some great books. And, I agree, about him for a president. I miss the days when if a Republican was in the White House you knew we might not always agree with but knew he cared about the country and had a decent moral compass.
So true, Jean. Never before the last one did a Republican President ever embarrass us on the world stage with his boorish words and actions. Disappointment that ours didn’t win? Sure! Disagreement with his policies? Certainly. But shame over his blatant immorality? Never until 45.
Delete"It would speed up the dying process and end the caregiver role." Yeesh. It reminds me of Scrooge's comment about the poor who would rather die than go to the poor house. It would "decrease the surplus population." Her comment seems, to me, particularly insensitive since you prefaced yours with the fact you were speaking about YOUR husband and his challenges. It sounds like the Art Professor's friend with the disabled husband knew what she was doing when she turned down her offer of "help."
ReplyDeleteI thought the same thing about getting turned down to sit with a disabled friend. There were people who offered the same to me who I knew I couldn't trust not to let Don have certain foods. Who thought I was being mean. Or I knew they'd be embarrassed having to hold a urinal bottle for him, etc.
DeleteI'm so sorry. It sounds like she just blurts without thinking first. And although she had no way of knowing your situation, the remark was just so cold.
ReplyDeleteExactly. She didn't have anyway of knowing about Don or apparently not how cold it sounded in general. Yet people say things like that at funerals all the time. "It was a blessing. He/she is no longer in pain." It was as much in the poor wording as in the meaning of those words that got to me.
DeleteJean : based on your recommendation I have put hold for this book, hopefully I still remember your review by the time my book comes. Jean I don't think your art professor meant it, it was just response without thinking, & I feel we all are going to go from this world when our job here on earth is done, none of us are immortal, it could come from eating potato chip or falling, & I know we all go through survivor's guilt & what if thoughts, but knowing that soul came to this earth school to learn its lesson forhis & other family members spiritual growth & when their job is done they go back to their home. This is the reason gives me comfort.
ReplyDeleteAsha
Ash
I think you will like the book. He's been on Oprah's 'Super Soul Sundays' a couple of times. He writes in an easy-to-understand manner that gives insights and stories, and lots of inspiration for wanting to grow our spiritual sides.
DeleteYou got to the very heart of why the Art Professor's comment wounded me so deeply----survivor's guilt for what I won't go into here but I've forgiven her. She's spend her entire adult life helping immigrants settle here in America. Hands on help like no one I've ever known.
Oh no! I did not know the history of what precipitated your husband's passing. That is awful. I can't believe what the art professor said - she should have kept those thoughts to herself as you never know what someone has been through! It sounds like she was trying to show empathy regarding the stress and strain of being a caregiver but that's not the way to do it. (Maybe I am being too generous here, though...) I am going to look up David Brooks - never heard of him but if those 2 recommend him (and now you), I'd better take action!
ReplyDeleteDeb
The Art Professor was trying to facilitate a conversation about helping family caregivers without having ever been in that role so she came off like the people at funerals tells widows, "It was a blessing." They are thinking about the 'what ifs' of a long, lingering goodbye.
DeleteI'm listening to the book a second time.
Wow. For some reason, her insensitive reply correlates with the comment, “what’s in it for them?” made by a very ugly person about service men and women who potentially offer their lives to protect our democracy. This has been on my mind during the anniversary remembrance of D-Day. My Purple Heart recipient father was in Normandy Beach the day after. Not a sucker. Not a loser.
DeleteI honesty don't know why any person whose served in the military or lost a loved one to a war would vote for someone so dismissive of fallen soldiers. And look what he said to McCain for being captured and being a POW for five (?) years! That he like people who didn't get captured better!
DeleteI have a problem connecting with people in general as I am super shy, just saying. Also some people are clueless about how things they say can affect or hurt another person, they open their mouths words come out and pain is caused and they haven't a clue.
ReplyDeleteThe clueless don't bother me as much as the ones who say hurtful things on purpose just to cause drama.
DeleteI’ve watched David Brooks on PBS for years, and have several of his books. He is technically labeled conservative, but in these days of extreme Trumpism, there is barely any difference in his views and his liberal counterpart on the news panel.
ReplyDeleteI got that impression from the book. He didn't back away from using Trump as an example a time of two of what is wrong with society.
DeleteI'm saddened anytime someone makes a callous insensitive comment and seems oblivious of the impropriety. I didn't know that's what happened to Don and now when I accidentally inhale food it will make me realize how dangerous or even fatal that can be! I'll have to look for that Author, I'm not familiar with him. Interactions with people can be so complex and I think we all could get better at it.
ReplyDeleteOver the years I've often wondered if he could have talked and told me his lungs didn't feel right if things had turned out differently. We could have gotten him into a doctor sooner. I try not to visit in the land of what ifs but a conversation like I described took me there again.
DeleteI'm so sorry you had to deal with that whole thing with the Art Professor, but I know what it's like to have been the person who did something like that. I have always been a rather clueless person in some ways, and when I was selling real estate, there was another woman in the office who was older, and she offered to drive when we had to go see some new properties that had just been listed. While we were driving, we saw a lake with some ducks on it, she mentioned she had taken her husband to a lake, and he had forgotten what their name (the ducks) was, and was struggling to talk about them. The way she talked about the incident was funny, and I laughed. She did not laugh, and just said he had Alzheimer's disease, and was quiet. Later, thinking about it, I cringed, and realized I had no idea what that was like, but now, having had a stroke and being very dependent on my caregiver, I get it. In my case, it was lack of information, I didn't have any idea what a scourge Alzheimer's is, or how devastating it is to watch someone you love being taken away from you, bit by bit. I suspect it is the same for her. If you haven't lived it, you just can't imagine what it's like. I also did not know that about Don, I didn't start reading your blog until after my stroke, which happened at the very end of 2012, and I never looked back at the earlier posts to find out what happened. Wow, what a lot of trauma you (and he) endured. If you can find it in your heart to have a quiet conversation about it with her, it might be good for both of you, but if not, let it go. It's not your job to fix everyone, and peace of mind is already in very short supply in this world.
ReplyDeleteI've already let it go. I know her well enough to know that she'd never intentionally hurt anyone. Like with the real estate person, we can't know what we don't know. Tonight I've been watching a TV show where the leading character has Alzheimer's, then come in my den to check my blog before going to bed and find your story here. What are the odds? The universe is full of wonder.
DeleteI've read Brooks's columns for years; his book sounds timely. Another author I enjoy is Jonathan Haidt. His recent book, The Anxious Generation, explores the effect of social media and smart phones on our kids; I'm about halfway through and it's a great read.
ReplyDeleteDespite the pain your Art Professor caused with her off-handed remark, from this distance it also makes me curious. That's not something most people would say; it makes me wonder if you somehow triggered a memory or experience for her. It might be that her remark in fact had nothing to do with you or what you had said, but was born of something in her past. That said, there's a reason "think before you speak" was drilled into me from a young age, and why it still is good advice. I have such a wacky sense of humor, and of the absurd, that I have to watch myself. Sometimes thoughts will bubble up into my mind that are better not said -- or written, for that matter!
As for your experience with your husband, that had to have been more than traumatic. The 'what-ifs' always linger after events like that, despite their futility. It's important to remember how complex life is, and how, most of the time, all we can do is our best, as you did.
I love your last paragraph.
DeleteAnd I think you are probably on to something when you said I may have triggered a memory for her. If I had my wits about me I could have followed up by repeating what she said and asking her if she knew a caregiver who really struggled in a hopeless situation where speeding up the death process really was a blessing. Everyone has different life experiences. We are all old here and I can't be the only one who is losing my ability to communicate effectively. I'm still fangirling her if that tells you anything.
This person was a pyschiatrist? Wow. This makes me boiling mad. I, like you, didn't wish to leave my husband for these exact reasons. I am so sorry this brought up your experience. I give you kudos for not telling her how callous and cold she was, I'm not sure I could have done that Jean. Bless you! I think I need to read this book. (I too fangirl over Obama) And now I need to vent this because it really has hit me to my core.
ReplyDeleteNo, it was the Art Professor who said it. Not one of the child psychiatrists at the tabe. I'm totally over it now. If I had had my wits about me the time to tell her that the comment was cold was when it happened and I have no doubt she would have rephrased it. And maybe explain what in her experience made her think that, much less say it out loud. But it hit me at my core, too.
DeleteSigh. Hard as it is, perhaps Art Professor is giving you a strange "opportunity" to go even deeper. I wonder what would have happened if you'd had the presence of mind to give a great gasp and say out loud what happened to Don, and how it actually did go. Done with a lack of retaliation, it might have registered in her in a truly helpful way.
ReplyDeleteThat would have been the best way it could have been handled. But you don't get do overs in these situations and to bring it back up again days later doesn't make sense for me. I've already let go of my initial reactions and I no longer hold ill feelings toward her. But I totally agree with you.
DeleteI've requested that book from the library. Those two referrals are also my favorites but I admit I haven't been keeping up with them. I'm sorry the Art Professor hurt your heart. I suppose she meant it like when we say a deceased person is in a "better place." Sometimes we say the stupidest things.
ReplyDeleteI know that she didn't mean it as cold as it sounded. it truly was one of those 'better place; kind of things she didn't think through before saying it.and who knew I could take it hard after a decade?
Delete