Since October I’ve been having dinner once a week with a group of women at what we’ve been calling the Liberal Ladies Table. We started with four of us and last week we were up to nine. It’s very low key and what we talk about at the Liberal Ladies Table stays at the table. And the table they seat us at is back in a corner of the restaurant where voices don’t carry. In other words, we don’t flaunt it or make a big deal out of. However, this week a women who lives in our independent living apartment complex ambushed us as we were waiting by the fireplace for our reservation time to tell us that what we’re doing is wrong. She thinks if we want to talk about politics we should meet in our apartments. She just learned about the group and now she says she feels uncomfortable around us! “And I’m not the only one,” she claimed. She wanted to know how we get people into our group and acted like it was a clandestine thing where we badger people in dark hallways until they tell us which political party they support. “No one living here should know each other’s political leanings!” she told scolded our group.
We all sat there, getting reprimanded and lectured without us saying much back. We were in shock at how angry she was. One woman did said, “We spend very little time talking about politics, we talk about other things as well.” Another added, “We eat together because we’re friends and it’s only once a week!” I wanted to spat out, “So much for free speech!” but I didn’t because that would have escalated her anger. But when she asked if we really feel the need to talk about politics at all?“ I did reply, “Yes because current events is important and every time someone brings something up in the news around here it quickly gets shut down.”
I don’t get it, I really don’t. This woman is a good Catholic who wanted to be a nun. Goes to church several times a week. She’s a person who is always organizing extra social activities around here. She’s in line dancing class with 5-6 of the Liberal Ladies and until now they seemed to have fun together. They even put on shows at the other buildings on this and our sister campus. In other words she’s social and fun. While she’s doesn’t talk in depth about anything it’s been pretty easy to guess that she’s a bit naive as is her older sister who I really like. I can tease the sister and she can give it right back. The sister one time heard another women here say that she is an atheist and the sister told a group at lunch, “After she said that I had nightmares about burning up in hell.” I’m still scratching my head over how an acquaintance's view on God could upset you as much as it did her.
Our resident atheist (aka Ms Social Worker) has made a lot of people distance themselves from her because she’ll freely tell anyone that she is one. She once said that she’s had to listen to church talk her entire life and she’s tired of hiding. The atheist is part of our Liberal Ladies group and maybe Ms. Zip-Your-Lips is painting us all with the same broad brush? Maybe that’s why she was so angry? One time when the atheist was being discussed Ms. Zip-Your-Lips remarked, “Why would anyone say they don’t believe in God?” Duh, isn’t it a clear enough statement? I thought but I didn’t say, If a person doesn’t believe, they don’t believe. I consider myself an agnostic but I’d never voice that around here and the number one reason for that is that I knowingly bought into a faith based, non profit campus and while there was no litmus test to get in I don’t think it’s right to purposely (or accidentally) agitate others on the topic of religion when I’m benefiting from the campus’ non-profit status.
I've talked to a couple of the others in Liberal Ladies group since 'the lecture' and we feel the same way----conflicted. On one hand we think she owns us an apology and on the other hand we want her to help us understand why she’s so offended. Has the word "liberal" become a dirty word? To tell us she feels uncomfortable around us after learning our politician leanings blows my mind. She’s judging us to be toxic or like we’ve suddenly changed our personalities since she learned we’re liberal leaning and we’re no long fit to associate with. I just don't get it! Every day we co-mingle with ultra-conservatives here---even like most of them---who don't always keep their views to themselves, they even eat together once or twice a week and have been a lot longer than we liberals. I'd love to ask Ms Zip-Your-Lips if she gave them the same lecture. But I won't because our group decided to lower the temperature, not make anymore waves.
Since this happened a tenth woman asked to join our group. However, our group will never be the same. For one thing, we agreed to stop calling it the Liberal Ladies Table. While I understand the decision, the damage is already done so what it the point? It feels like we're walking around with a big red 'L' painted on our foreheads, wondering who are the others who agree with her. And two, because our size has outgrown the table spaces available the ones in charge of making our reservations decided to break us up into three tables and rotate each week who sits with who. In other words she'd driven us to hiding in plain sight. My reaction to hearing that decision was, "Sadly, this will be the beginning of the end," and I was assured, "We won't let that happen." Time will tell... ©
WOW! And that's what's wrong with the world. People don't mind their own business, live and let live. They always want others to comply with how they themselves think things should be, how others should think, how others should act. I don't believe when she says others feel that way and, if they do, it's probably because she's been going around stirring the pot. Good luck and don't let her spoil your fun.
ReplyDeleteShe's already spoiled the fun. In my mind I'm calling us the Hide-in-Plain-Sight Club because we had three tables last night of us. It felt terrible, acting like we did something wrong. And the rotation chart some of them devised is like a battle plan of who sits with who and who does the reservations.
DeleteWow. That is a shocker. I hope it is not the beginning of the end. It is a head scratcher that many of the people thumping their chests and screaming about rights and freedoms cannot stand their views to be challenged and actually don't believe in freedom for any line of thinking but their own. I don't know if this lady is one of them but it is kind of telling that she is scolding you for discussing politics but not the conservative group. She sounds quite fragile in her own beliefs and thinking.
ReplyDeleteDeb
She could have scolded the other group as well but they didn't break up afterward like we did. Can't speak for them. All I know for sure is that she tried to dictate her brand of morality on other people (in mass no less) and that makes her either a bully or a dictator.
DeleteThat’s so disturbing. If she is strong in her beliefs, I’m not sure why she is so uncomfortable with someone who believes differently. It’s as though hearing another thought process threatens their reality. That is the sad brainwashing that drives people away from churches. I hope your group can carry on, but I feel sad that you are being split into three tables.
ReplyDeleteSorry…I guess that posted as Anon. It’s Hope Springs (across the pond for now).
ReplyDeleteI'm sad about it too, Hope. And one of the women last night brought up that it's normal for people to drift toward sitting with like minded people. Out of the 14 meals a week the serve here we only eat together that one day a week while the Catholic group eats together multi times a week.
DeleteFor her to be that angry, she feels threatened. It’s a curious thing, as to why anyone would be this upset/threatened over a different political point of view. I wonder if her anger would carry over to those of different religions; Jewish versus Catholic versus Methodist for example. I’m agnostic, but it represents only a small part of who I am and what I value.
ReplyDeleteI look for the humanity in people, and the ability to tolerate different view points. She is someone to be pitied. I hope this doesn’t discourage your group; it’s affirming to find others with the same core values as yourself.
Carole
f you look for the humanity people---and I agree, that's a great marker of a person's character----you'd see her giving hours of her time to her church and organizing buffets here on the holidays when we don't have an open kitchen. You'd see her quickly step in and shut down any conversation that MIGHT get contentious. She's also quick to offer rides to people who don't drive or bring food to people who are sick and can't make it to the dining room. She's a good person but in this situation she's totally misjudged us and when off on us like were were bunch of kids playing in a sandbox. Since that 'lecture' we both treat each other as if nothing happened. But it did and in my mind it's not over yet.
DeleteMaybe she is starting to have cognitive issues. Because that can make a person act erratically and feel erratically and be angry for weird reasons.
ReplyDeleteShe's one of the youngest people living here, moved in because her sister needed the CCC. Thinking back, right from the beginning she has been quick to shut down any conversation about politics which is one of the reasons why we all wanted a group where we could freely talk about current events.
DeleteI wish she could read this. Well, maybe a slightly edited version but not much. Your thoughts are so well reasoned and so beautifully expressed. I think my question for her, one on one, would be: What makes anyone in this group different to you than they were before? You do activities with us, we have good times, and we've been doing this for a long while. So, what makes us different? We exclude no one from our conversations. You're welcome to join us. You may not enjoy the conversation all the time because we are politically different. and that's why we meet, but you are welcome to join in. Politics doesn't make either of us right or wrong, just different."
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure I agree with splitting the tables either -- sometimes that makes it easier to all talk than at a long skinny table, but you miss out on a lot. Perhaps they could reserve two or three tables pushed together? When I meet (well, use to meet -- we haven't in person for awhile) with our retirees group of about 12 from the station, the restaurant puts the table into a U-shape so it's very easy to talk across the whole area, easier than a long table. I hope you all can get this resolved. I actually pity this woman. She is losing a lot in her life.
Your questions in the first paragraph are what runs through my mind and someday I'll probably find an opportunity to ask them of her.
DeleteWe met last night and it was our second time using three tables instead of one large on. They were all right next to each other but there's way to cross-talk between tables. The management does not like us to push tables together, claiming it's hard to train the waitresses and we always have a new crop of new ones. (We also have a robot that brings food to the tables and gets confused when tables are moved.)
ReplyDeleteThis has to be frustrating for all of you in the group. Something has changed in our nation, over the past few years. It seems that Americans are forgetting that this nation was founded on the premise that each citizen is entitled to think independently and to express those thoughts in a civilized manner. Sometimes as folks grow older, I think they become more and more fearful--about nearly everything. Maybe the fault finders think that the ccc should be a church, but it is not. The other thing that comes to mind is that I know of no biblical teaching that would support the woman's attitudes. Time will tell. Maybe she's dealing with other issues and your group took the bullet. Human nature can be strange.
How's your leg healing? Hang in there, Jean!
It's almost time to send a photo to the dermatologist but it's still an open wound, though I think it's a little smaller. Still looks infection free to me.
DeleteI feel bad that I found my tribe but in order to talk freely with them we have to hide in plain sight. It feels like we're doing something wrong. We've got college professors and a two mental health doctors in the group It's not like we're a bunch of rednecks just spouting off. Not to mention out of two hour dinner we probably didn't even talk current events more than twenty minutes.
The CCC is more open about politics differences than a few of our residents. During election time they invited candidates from both parties to speak on campus. Their pastors are non-denominational and never once have I felt any pressure from management to declare or reveal religious affiliation or lack there of. No, this is all on her trying to police our conversations
That was me, Jean, above.
DeleteHere in Texas, we know that, yes, "liberal" is now a bad word in some circles. My cousin's wife firmly believes we liberals support a government running a child abduction ring and that government officials party in a basement beneath the White House with underage girls. She and many others, unfortunately, have bought everything QAnon has to say. Even mainstreamers have twisted our beliefs. Supposedly we encourage preteens to experiment with their gender identity and "mutilate" themselves rather than offer them acceptance, and we also teach our school children to hate America. It's okay for them to proclaim some of these things but we'd get shouted down if we said anything admirable about Nancy Pelosi, for example. We, in fact, were excluded in 2016 from our tight circle of friends we'd held since we all moved here in about 2007, went through the massive wildfires together in 2011 (during which many housed overnight in our house because we were safe until the second day when we were evacuated, too). I agree with you that breaking you into groups of three is the beginning of the end, but I don't agree with that woman or her idea that you ought to be meeting in an apartment. Think what she'd suspect of you if you did meet "secretly" in someone's apartment. Is it possible to meet off campus at a coffee shop?
ReplyDeleteYou are right! I have forgotten there are people out there how still believe liberals are doing all those things you mentioned. Just yesterday someone here said she wished Pelosi would kill herself! Conspiracies still divide our country. Also another woman said she wondered if that football player who as the heart issue on the field had been vaccinated, that she doesn't trust them and won't get them. Then she said look how long it took Jonas Salts to come up with the polio and they made the vaccines for Covid in very little time. I said, "You can't compare the two. Salts was one man working alone without the aid of computers. With Covid the best sciences all over the world were working on a vaccine and sharing their findings." Didn't even give her a pause before she was claiming other QAnon non-sense.
DeleteIf we met in an apartment or off campus it would only draw more attending I think. I really think she broke us.For one thing we are now divided in the group on whether it's better with one table or three. I put in that there is a compromise of two tables, one bigger than they other.
I think she needs an anonymous letter explaining how hurtful her words were to your group. She's probably lacking any real self awareness and compassion for others, but perhaps a well worded tome addressing her accusations in a friendly, non-accusatory tone would give her something to ponder in private.
ReplyDeleteThat's not a bad idea. My neighbor who is in the group made the remark that she didn't think the woman has any idea how much se effected us.
DeleteMy God, you were 'broken up' into separate tables by staff just like you were unruly children in a classroom? i can't imagine literally paying to be treated like that.
ReplyDeleteFor those deploring that a Conservative was offended by the groups Liberal (I prefer using Progressive, because that's how I view it) talk in a public area- how would you feel if the situation were reversed? Myself, I would intensely dislike being held hostage by a nearby table full of Trump supporters, who at 10 people, are likely a lot louder than they think they are.
So I would vote with keeping politics out of your public dining area, just as with religion. It's the polite thing to do at the end of the day.
Staff had nothing what so ever to do with this...but I'm probably reading your comment wrong...just don't want anyone else to get that impression.
DeleteYour last paragraph totally supports Ms Zip-Your-Lips point of view regarding politics in public places but she takes place in a frequent gathering of Catholic eating together. Tolerance should be a two way street.
I opened my computer this morning and this is the first thing I read. I should have eased in. LOL Now my BP is rising and I'm so angry on your behalf! NO ONE should dictate with whom or how often anyone sits with for a meal! How ridiculous. But beyond that, I'm angry that every darn time those who feel as that woman does, they have no qualms about expressing their opinion, their values, their thoughts and judgements and for the most part those who think like us try to be respectful and understanding and alter our behavior in response. That is NOT right! I'm tired of cowering and "hiding" who I am for the sake of someone else's comfort. I sort of agree with the atheist in that regard, but I do appreciate your perspective on your choice to live in a faith based community, so why "flaunt" your different view. That is appropriately respectful so long as you aren't silenced by it completely. Anyway. Your group doesn't really need a name and if you want to meet in apartments to discuss the news of the day, fine. But i really and truly hope you continue to sit together for your weekly meal and talk about any damn thing you please! This is why communal living sort of scares me. I've worked my whole life NOT to be silenced! It is natural to find friendship amongst like minded people and at our age, that shouldn't be thwarted or denied. Don't let her "win".
ReplyDeleteThank you for having my back from afar. This is the first time I've felt deflated with "communal" living and I can't shake the feeling that there's another shoe to drop before hurt feelings can go away.
DeleteWow, just wow. First of all I'd insist on being seated together if that is what you all want. Secondly, I wouldn't engage with her at all. The best responses I have found for irrational speech are "It sounds like you are upset", "I find your comments inappropriate", "Please stop speaking to me/us that way" and if she doesn't stop I'd lodge a complaint for harassment/bullying. You don't have to put up with this type of behavior no matter what the religious underpinnings are of your living situation.
ReplyDeleteThe more I have thought about this it seems she is trying to dictate what can be discussed in what is essentially a restaurant. Perhaps a gentle reminder that the dining are is not her personal dining room but rather a restaurant for all residents.
DeleteYou are doing exactly what I and others have done...the more I thought about it the more offended I got. The thing is as much as I'd like to pop off to her, I'm not going to do it and become part of the problem when most of those in our group don't want it escalated the situation and make others end up take sides.
DeleteForgive me, but I don't understand why that woman has ANY power over you and your liberal friends. She admits she just learned about your group, so she must not have ever heard you talking politics. And so what if she did? Is she the thought police? Tell her to f***k off and do what you want. (Did I just say that? Lol)
ReplyDeleteCooler heads than mine or yours prevailed and didn't want to make anyone here feel uncomfortable about us. I personally think they reacted too quickly to break us in to 3 tables but I wasn't there when the decision was made so it is what it is.
DeleteThis post definitely made me angry and frustrated on your behalf. The ins and outs of living in a place with a variety of people require understanding that everyone holds different views--which she doesn't have. I agree with the anonymous letter and disagree that you shouldn't be able to discuss politics and religion. You're not doing it to start a fight; it's between like-minded people!
ReplyDeleteTalking about and disagreeing with others on religion and politics doesn't have to mean you can't be civil and respectful of other people's opinions. In fact not talking about this kind of thing to find the middle ground is what helps the divisions and misunderstandings grow.
DeleteI appreciate your blog and enjoy your observations so very much. My personal perspective is to refrain from capitulating to this person. One of our inalienable rights is freedom of speech, another is the right to assembly. No one has the right to dictate who you have a meal with or what you discuss. I would ask for a meeting with management that includes the self appointed dictator of dining policies. It’s a big deal that she has attempted to set rules for 10 friendships and turned a convivial dining experience into a prison meal. I hope your group has the passion to stand up for their rights, that’s the only way you can protect them. It will be something or someone else beating their chest on another topic next. This will not stop at breaking up your tables. Best, C Z Guest
ReplyDeleteI agree with you but I'm only one person in the group and I've agreed to go along with the majority on the smaller tables, but I let them know I think it's wrong to give into what was essentially a bullying situation.
DeletePersonally, I'd love to overhear conversations from both political factions living at your CCC. That might settle the issue because several people gathering to talk would rarely stay on one subject. Does she think you're planning to enact some of the conspiracies she's hearing from her news sources, or is she just stuck in the old mindset that politics and religion should never be discussed? It would be fascinating to know how she justifies her objections to your group when the Catholics meet to talk.
ReplyDeleteI think she's stuck in the mindset that nothing controversial should ever be discussed here. She'd like to have us all be the Stepford Wife Syndrome of happy, happy, happy all the time. Something strange/interesting happened yesterday. The Catholics who have a large table of diners once a week invited three of us from the Literal Ladies table to eat with them this coming Friday. Never happened before. I asked one of the other L.L. ladies what she thought that was all about and she thinks it's an olive branch because they were probably the one talking about us and Ms. Zip-Your-Lips took it farther than they thought it should have gone. If she's wrong maybe we're getting roasted. LoL
DeleteDon’t let this bully push you ladies around. That’s their strategy just like real politics in the outside world…always the "right" demanding to have their way and play the victim and the hell with anyone else. Stay strong and continue as always. If I lived there, I’d be the first to join up…last time I looked, it’s a free world and we can talk respectfully about anything we want to, as long as it’s not obscene and hurtful to someone else.
ReplyDeleteYou got that correct, the Right does play the victim and make waves where there were none coming from the other side. She has made a major wave that can't be taken back.
DeleteSome people just me off and she would be one of them
ReplyDeleteUntil this happened I would have said she's one of the nicest people living here.
DeleteMaybe I'm totally misreading this, but what I'm seeing here is not someone who is uncomfortable with liberalism so much as someone who is uncomfortable with even a hint of conflict (there can be many reasons for this, including childhood trauma), and who has identified politics as an arena of high conflict in our polarized society. I think she's wrong; we need to learn how to communicate about differences rather than hide from them. Do you think your activities director would be open to putting together some kind of program about civil communication about/despite differences?
ReplyDeleteYou are correct that she doesn't think anything controversial should be discussed. I think her wanting to be a nun plays into how she sees herself as a peace maker. When a guy who drinks too much bothers a women who mistakenly thinks he's coming on to her Zip-Your-Lips is there trying to mediate. She's the one who most often shuts down any topic that people disagree on. Makes for a phoniness in conversation and is one of the reasons why some of wanted to get together to talk in the first place where we could has a simple question like has the House elected a speaker yet.
DeleteNo one wants to blow this up anymore than it's already been blown up and getting management involved would do that. At one time some of us in book club asked if we could start a group to talk about current events, and she'd be willing if someone stepped up to be the facilitators. No one did.
Ah, yes, I can see how getting management involved would just escalate this situation. As a long-time conflict-phobe myself, I was looking for a strategy that would simultaneously de-escalate and open up space for discussion, but this isn't it. It's so frustrating that one person who lacks insight into their own behavior can have a deleterious effect on the quality of life of so many others.
Delete
DeleteExactly. She's not mean-spirited like some here have painted her and I'm pretty sure she'd not see her actions as trying to bully us. I think she acted rash when she learned about our group and we, being shocked, reacted too quickly.
I agree with several of the commenters who thought the woman should mind her own business. Why does she get to judge you? You aren't hurting anyone by sitting together so I think you should continue to do that if you want to.
ReplyDeleteIf I had my way we wouldn't have broken up into smaller groups to dine. But I didn't put the group together and I wasn't asked my opinion when the division was made. The made it that same night after dinner before it really sunk in, I think. They felt shocked and bad that we were so-called hurting others who felt like she does.
DeleteOne Resident cannot and should not dictate what groups of other Residents choose to do or join together in. If she isn't comfortable, she has the right to just not engage with the group when it meets and keep her opinions to herself, just like TV watching, nobody is forcing her to be exposed to anything she isn't comfortable with, it's a personal decision for each and every one of you to make. I wouldn't let her interfere with meeting and enjoying your group of Ladies who are kindred Spirits and can discuss anything anywhere they choose to. Who does she think she is, the Censorship Police of the CCC? *LMAO* Sounds to me that on the acceptable Exterior, she could just be a Troublemaker who has Internalized Issues unresolved.
ReplyDeleteOne resident can and did cause great stress and division within our group over how to handle this. Decisions on how to handle it were made and two weeks have passed since "the lecture" and we are supposedly on the mend in the greater community. I'm still waiting for the other shoe to fall.
DeleteSelf-righteousness is never Pretty. When other people feel convicted, judged or condemned it can be very damaging, especially within a smaller Community of people. This is also precisely why I am leery of insulated Communities of folk, without the expansiveness beyond their smaller borders, people often stray out of their own Lane and can cause collateral damage Socially. Becoz One Resident can and did cause great stress and division so easily within the CCC Community is disruptive to the good of all Residents in so many ways. You all should enjoy the Freedoms and Options available to you without someone playing Demigod. I would be very guarded around that Individual... so what if she once wanted to become a Nun, she didn't, perhaps they wouldn't have her? *LOL*
DeleteDon't worry. I will never trust this woman again. Forgive? Maybe but not just yet. I need to pout a few more weeks. Be friendly when we are in the same space? That's already happening, but it's forced on my part.
DeleteLack of boundaries can cause every sort of problem, both personal and interpersonal. Your tale reminded me of my on-going struggles with an intrusive mother who felt she had the right -- even the duty! -- to dictate to me how best to live my life. Eventually, I found the solution. When necessary, I'd simply say, "Look. Let's make a deal. You live your life, and I'll live mine." There are a few people in your community I'd say the same thing to.
ReplyDeleteOhmygod, I love that line! I hope I remember to use it when I have a good opportunity.
DeleteNope. She doesn't get to dictate your social life or the social life of ten other people. A restaurant is a public venue, even within your campus. She admitted she was operating on hearsay, and she was not being harmed in the least by a group of women having conversations. This woman was not being targeted for violence; she was not being harassed; your dinner and conversations were in no way threatening the enjoyment of her home. She hasn't a leg to stand on, and giving in to her bullying empowers her extremism.
ReplyDeleteAgree but as I wrote up above, "One resident can and did cause great stress and division within our group over how to handle this. Decisions on how to handle it were made and two weeks have passed since "the lecture" and we are supposedly on the mend in the greater community. I'm still waiting for the other shoe to fall."
DeleteReading all this again really irritates me that one person can dictate what’s done, where people sit and what is talked about among like minded friends or even in a mix of people.
DeleteThis is just not right.
Is there a a place like a bar or cocktail hour place where your group could meet say once a week and be left in peace from the dominant pushy "my way or the highway" lady?…Mary
If we tried to meet some place else on campus I would think it would be even more noticeable to more people and our goal is not to make waves and turn people against us. There is no win-win in this situation because the damage has already been done. I do plan to ask some of the others if they had any conversation about "The Lecture" since that first day and if she apologized. I've talked to her since but it was as if .othing ever happened on both our parts. However, I'll never feel the same about her again.
Delete"a Good Catholic" how is that? She is filled with hatred towards others unlike herself. You aren't hurting anyone. If she doesn't wish to mingle with "your kind" you may wish to tell her some bible stories that this Catholic should know about how jesus didn't treat others different than themselves so poorly. I'd maybe change the name so y'all can have a nice time without judgements. To The Smart Women's club. I always thought I could live in one of these places but bloggers have shown me I never could or just stay in my room and not mingle at all. It's so high school-ish; for me to take and I give you big kudo's for taking it so well. .
ReplyDeletePeople are people everywhere and this same kind of person/situation can be in clubs, in neighbor groups, at schools, in offices, always someone who thinks they know better than others, who wants to dictate other people's behavior. It's exclusive to CCC or assisted living places in other words.
DeleteI say she's a good Catholic because she goes to church multi times a week, takes part in the do-good projects and helps people out here who are sick or don't drive and needs someone to run their errands. She does try to be a good person. But from day one she's also tried to shut down any conversation that is headed toward controversy, trying to build a Mary Poppins community here where nothing negative ever crosses our doorways. I think she went off on us because she saw our group as in opposition to all that--- as if talking about politics always turns ugly. And she proved it by HER turning it ugly.
That's so sad, but not surprising.
ReplyDelete60 comments (so far)! Very important topic. Hopefully you can find a setting for all 10+ like minded talkers ... different time of day? One bad apple ....
ReplyDeleteThough I just wrote about this this week, it happened nearly three weeks ago and decisions have already been made on how to handle it. For two weeks now we've dined at the same time only broken up into three tables. That's not going to change again because most of us want it to all blow over and it has for the most part as the gossip train never left the station to escalate this to the general population.
Delete