I’ve never liked using the word ‘queer’ and I was surprised as anyone when I found myself binge watching Queer Eye on Saturday night. In case you don’t know or have forgotten about this Reality TV franchise it’s now in its seventh season and it features some gay guys who call themselves the Fab Five. In each show they give lifestyle and fashion makeovers to a guest. It could be a makeover for straight guys, straight women or gay guys coming out. I've seen a sampling of all of these.
I actually started watching it not so much as a choice but because I couldn’t find my remote that got lost in my bedding. I’d just finished watching the end of Next in Fashion and because the main fashion designer in that show, Tan, is also in Queer Eye Netflix's took me into an episode of Queer Eye and by the time I located the remote I was curious enough to keep watching. I already knew Tan as a sweet guy who is emphatic with the contestants on Next in Fashion. But what really hooked me to keep watching QE was a co-host named Karamo who seemed to be be able to give good, solid lifestyle advice to the guests. After a quick Google search I learned he was a licensed social worker and psychotherapist for ten years before going into the media work. Rounding out the Fab Five is a hairstylist named Jonathan, a food and wine expert, and an interior designer who does home makeovers while the rest of the guys work on the guest.
Jonathan is my least favorite personality on the show and he's also the most flamboyant who loves being the center of attention. He's an over-the-top type who often wears dresses and ‘swishes it up’ for the camera. But we do occasionally see glimpses of depth in his personally when he’s one-on-one with the guests. However, I can't get used to seeing a beard and dress on the same person. I’ve known quite a few gay guys in my lifetime (between the floral industry and art classes) and only one them was what I'd call gay-dramatic like Jonathan.
In the Continuum Care Complex where I live there are at four gay women (two couples) and I heard a rumor there are a couple of guys but if I've met them they are too deep in the closet for me to have guessed. The women neither flaunt it nor hide it and are generally treated well by everyone except one of the guys recently called one of the couples “butch ladies” to their faces. They laughed it off but I was shocked and blurted out, “That was mean-spirited!”
I guess what I'm walking around the barn to say is it just never occurred to me to be prejudice against this entire segment of society. People who want to shove gays back in the closet because---I'm guessing---the flamboyant ones make them too uncomfortable and they don’t seem to acknowledge or care that gays are nothing new. Indigenous people around the world all have centuries old language for gender variations in their communities. Two-Spirits in North American Tribes have never been considered to be male or female.
I know from the talk around here that the United Methodist Church is splitting up over the issue of acceptance or non-acceptance of LGBTQ community. According to a recent article in Christianity Today 1,800 churches in the U.S. have taken advantage of the exit plan the church came up with a few years ago to split. Closer to home one of my fellow residents is involved in writing a handbook for his church on the subject. I wanted to ask him why he cares so much and how does the Church square its position with the biological reasons why we have gay people born? Does it ignore the fact that homosexuality appears in the animal kingdom? Though I don’t really need to ask to guess the push-back comes from the passages and parables in his Bible, a Bible that have been edited, added to and subtracted from by various mortal men over many centuries. To me it makes more sense to believe that if God made a certain percentage of all humans and animals on earth gay then He meant for them to be here and for that reason alone we shouldn’t turn our backs on them.
And if He didn’t mean for them to be here and it’s proven in the future that gayness is without a doubt a kind of birth defect caused by a hormonal differentiation between the organs and the brain that could be treated and corrected in utero how will the Church feel about its history of shunning people who were born gay before this science is available? Will the Church be among the first to try to push for laws to punish parents who might choose, for whatever reason, not to treat their babies in utero? Would they say if a fetus is too far along for the treatment that that is an acceptable reason to have an abortion? An understanding of gender selection in the brain that differs from a babies' sex organs will be commonly accepting in scientific and medical communities in the not too distance future, but it will bring with it a whole new set of moral choices to the gay debate.
We live in a country with Great Divides with neither side listening to the other. We have some states making "don't say gay" laws and a few parents wanting to keep their babies 'gender fluid' until they are old enough to pick. While waiting for the science to become widely accepted, wouldn't it be nice if we could find a way to rein in the extremes to find a common ground in the middle. Compromise and tolerance needs to come back in vogue. If only there was a makeover show to make that happen. ©
I recently finished Next in Fashion and I love Tan. I think it's great that there's a lot less prejudice that there used to be. It's not perfect by any means, but it's a lot better.
ReplyDeleteHe really is a nice guy, isn't he. A sweet and gentle soul. A little sillier acting on Queer Eye but still his core values shine.
DeleteAs the eight-years-older sister of a gay man, I can testify that if my brother made a decision, he made it by two years old. He was always different in ways that disturbed my dad, which led to Dad taking away my brother's beloved lion stuffie, but made my song-and-dance-and flower-arranging brother more beloved by others. Of course, back in the 50's, I didn't know about gay men but my brother reports that all through high school, his classmates sure knew. He didn't dare go to the bathroom at school. The pressure to be normal and the inculcated self hatred led to him marrying and having two delightful daughters, but by the 90s, he came out. It hasn't always been an easy transition. How much better it will be for another young teen in our extended family who is gay, I hope, but we live in Texas. The school this young person was attending was in the process of setting up a section in the school library for LGBQT+ students when suddenly all such books were removed from the school library and teachers and libraries are banned from saying anything that "promotes" the "gay lifestyle." This teens' classmates take the teen's decision with an "okay" shrug, but the adults . . .
ReplyDeleteIf being gay were a choice, what makes anyone think someone would choose to be hated and belittle by others or where their physical safety is at risk? Being gay in not easy, better now but complete acceptance is still a long way off. I almost married a gay guy who was deep in the closet and I often think about how that would have effected my self-esteem to find out years into the marriage. Being in the closet not a place that should be the norm, but I get that too.
DeleteThis is me again, Linda P. I'll remember some day to make sure my name is there instead of "Anonymous."
DeleteLOL
DeleteAmen Jean! "Compromise and tolerance need to come back in vogue."
ReplyDeleteYears ago, when I was still teaching children, I found it interesting to note that the younger kids seemed very accepting of one another, but by the time they'd been in school several years something changed. Cliques formed. Bullying began. Students who were "different" were often shunned.
I can't begin to understand human behavior, but I think fear and love must be the most motivating factors for our behavior. If only we could lean more toward love...
Little kids are taught by society's example---how their parents and grandparents act---to hate or dislike other who are different than them because little kids sure aren't born that way.
DeleteI grew up attending a liberal UMC church in a mega university town so have been quite appalled at the stance taken by conservative UMC churches. My childhood church even had sex education classes with boys and girls attending together in the mid-60's. Of course no one publicly talked about homosexuality then to teenagers. I'm now an humanist-atheist and only care what churches do because to the social and political problems they cause.
ReplyDeleteI like your hyphenated label. I've studied a little about humanism and if I was going to rebrand myself I might go with humanist-agnostic. If God is love and love is God as so many churches proclaim why do they not reflect that in the causes and issues they get involved in? Churches need to stay out of politics all together. That's how we got Trump.
DeleteOh boy. I live in Fla..land of the "don't say gay" and "anti woke" and ban books DeSantis. It’s just awful what is being done in our state. We are all in trouble if he becomes President.
ReplyDeletePeople use religion so they can feel superior and be bullies. That's all there is to it. The man calling the couple butches is typical of angry old white men, probably a trumper and religious. Makes me ill, this regressing back to the dark ages. Mary
We were talking about this at dinner last night (at the table formerly known as the Liberal Ladies and not called the Discussion Group or something equally as dumb) and someone made the remark that everyone in Florida loves DeSantis. So I'm really happy you added this comment. I'm so afraid we'll get him or Trump for president and it could easily happen if too many Republicans get in the race. Pence and Nicki are in the single digits and Trump and Desantis are polling with Republican only few points apart at 50% and 46%.
DeleteThe guy here who made the butch comment is a Trumper and a die-hard Republican. I can't believe the culture wars going on! Unfortunately I probably won't live long enough to see which side will win. The next election is critical.
Think of how Jonathan would be if he weren't gay, but were a straight male demanding attention. Scary, right? He's way less threatening and way easier to take as he is.
ReplyDeleteI think making a bright line between church and state would be a big help right now. Organized religion has caused more trouble throughout history than anything else in the world. I'm glad I got out.
I think one of the reasons---maybe the main reason---Jonathan's over-the-top persona bothers me is because I knew a kid in the 60s like him but I knew him really well and knew how unhappy he was underneath. It was partly an act to get his parents to see him. REALLY see him and accept that he wasn't interested in girls. I see glimpse of my old friend in Jonathan when he isn't vamping it up.
DeleteLast night quite by accident I saw an episode where the Fab Five where making over a church rec center and the guys bared their souls about their experiences with the church. One of the church's leaders had a gay son that left the church. I can see why this franchise has lasted as long as it has.
That bright line you want between church and state right now seems to be on the hit list of the Republican Party. Marjorie Taylor Greene is advocating we through out that part of the constitution and she's not the only one. What a waste of money people like here are causing.
It's no more reasonable to lump all the churches together than it is to lump all gays into one huge group. Churches are made up of people, after all, and individual congregations can differ considerably in their approach to any issue. When I was serving a congregation in Houston, one of the altar group members was a gay guy; his recipe for a whole wheat altar bread was the best in the world, and it's the recipe I still use when I want to bake bread. Beyond that, he was the one who taught me that necessary Texas skill: how to two-step.My lessons took place at a downtown Houston gay country bar: an experience never to be forgotten, for a whole variety of reasons.
ReplyDeleteYou make a good point about lumping all churches together. But the fact that a big church like the UMC couldn't find common ground on an issue of acceptance is a big red flag in my opinion that church wasn't going a good job of teaching Love.
DeleteI was in a gay bar once. I know what you mean in your last line.
I think part of the problem is that you can't teach love, and you certainly can't impose it. Perhaps people who haven't experienced love and acceptance don't know how to give it, either.
DeleteReligions and "Christians who aren't really Christ-like" have sure caused a lot of trouble. What about "treat others they way you want to be treated" and "love one another"! I don't know why they don't focus on those teachings!
ReplyDeleteI was raised Catholic but have given up all of that - too many rules, too much judging! Ugh!
You are so right. Churches will become obsolete in another century if they don't grow with the times. We don't burn little girls as witches anymore just because one might be born with two different color eyes. it's time to quit teaching people that it's a sin to be gay.
DeleteIf you like Queer Eye, I think you might like We're Here - a show in which 3 famous drag queens go to a city/town in the USA (usually one that is very conservative) and help LGBTQ folk that live there, by boosting their confidence and hosting a drag show in which they perform. All of the allies and other queer folk come out to support to show them that they are not as alone as they think, in their community. Like Queer Eye, pretty much every episode has me crying. Looking back, I knew my sister was different from me since she was pre-school. No dollies or Barbies for her; it was Hot Wheels and Mechano...and yes, she grew up to be a "butch lady". I am so glad you spoke out when that jerk said that.
ReplyDeleteWhat I'd like to say to a "it's a lifestyle choice" person is this: So, you had to choose to be straight then? Because I sure didn't. Someone doth protest a bit too much. Interesting.
Deb
I haven't heard about that show. Now it makes sense that some states are trying to make laws against drag queen shows. I'll have to see if We're Here is on Netfix's.
DeleteI love your response to those who think being gay is a choice. I hope I remember some variation of 'what age did you choose to be straight' or 'so you had to choose to be straight'. Perfect!!!!
Jean, with respect, the Florida bill said nothing about "don't say gay". Look it up. Basically what's happening is these states want to give children a chance to grow up before they make a decision to alter (mutilate) their bodies for a lifetime. There are lots of people with regrets (detransitioning). You're believing the propaganda.
DeleteI can't find any studies put detransitioning at a higher rate that 12% and better psychological screening could probably cut those numbers down. There is plenty of propaganda on both sides.
DeleteWould be interesting to know how many states allow sex change surgery (I'm guessing that's what's meant by mutilate) for minors. I'm guessing none, and that's a fear tactic.
DeleteYup, I think you're guessing right about the use of word 'mutilate' up above but really, if you're chromosomes (X and Y pattern) doesn't match the genitalia you were born with wouldn't the surgery actually be repairing a birth defect? It hasn't been that long since they've been routinely testing all babies to see if their chromosomes match the sex organs they presented at birth. Occasionally a baby is born with ambiguous genitalia, where they can't tell right away if its a boy or a girl. What looks a tiny penis can end up retracting inside the body to create a vagina. And balls don't always drop until a few weeks after birth.
DeleteFabulous post and I agree 100,000 percent. Live, and let live.
ReplyDeleteThank you.
DeleteMy high school boyfriend of three years ended it with me by saying "it's not you, it's me". My best friend and his best friend made up our Fabulous Four and they finally told me he was gay. One of my Grandma's friends was a gay man. One Aunt was gay with a live in "aunt". My niece is marrying her girlfriend in May. Homosexuality has been around forever and will continue, out of the closet or in. I just wish I didn't have to understand all the different letters of LGBQetc. Gay or trans would make conversation so much easier. We had a trans male to female here at the condos ... s/he was over 6' tall and size 12 ladies shoes. Life is so interesting!
ReplyDeleteI agree on the letters. I have a hard time keeping them straight no pun intended.
DeleteI used to watch the original version of Queer Eye and loved it. The men were insightful and kind and humorous. I imagine this new group is the same way. I don't understand why anyone worries about how other people get the jollies and with who. But I know you're right, there's a divide on this issue. I stand firmly in the middle trying to tether both sides to reality.
ReplyDeleteCommon ground is very uncommon these days,
DeleteI find religious people are often to judgmental they often take the Bible to seriously, me I don't judge people are what they are as long as I am treated right then all is good.
ReplyDeleteAmen to that.
DeleteI live in a deeply red state that is trying to ban drag shows without saying drag shows. What will happen is that much of Shakespeare will be illegal, dance shows at sporting events (provocative dancing), and other art forms that someone could view as sexual. These kinds of bills have unintended consequences.
ReplyDeleteI heard about those. In one state they say the drag shows raise a lot of money for charity. And Dolly Parton said she dresses trashier than most drag queens and asks if she's going to be outlawed.
DeleteThe Young Prince, who is pretty Fabulous himself {themselves as is preferred}, once told me about the Gay-Dramatics, "Gramma, ain't nobody THAT Gay!" He found it annoying and probably exaggerated and faked, for whatever reasons someone is over the top in any other ways I suppose. But, I thought his comment was funny. My Native American Dad was a Two Spirit and Tribal Community accept it and several on that side of the Family are... it's rather a Gender Neutral Indigenous consideration totally acceptable and integrated within Tribal Societies. I agree tho' with compromise and tolerance being in short supply these days for a whole lotta things that just make lives harder than they have to be for so many precious Souls. The things some people are hateful about or judgmental about has always been a mystery to me, it seems seeped in ignorance and outdated dogma that few challenge and blindly accept without question.
ReplyDeleteThanks for sharing what your grandson said. I suppose the reasons why someone is over-the-top dramatic varies in each individual and once in a while, we need to remember, we'll run across a straight person who is the same way.
DeleteWhat you're describing with your Dad's Tribal Communities seems to be common among Indigenous people around the world which shouldn't surprise anyone. Missionaries who brought Christianity to them tried to change that but most tribes still accept Two-Spirits.
They actually Revere and considered Two Spirit to be an Elevated State of Being that transcends mere Gender... Dawn the Bohemian
DeleteInteresting!
DeleteInteresting post, Jean. And interesting comments. I have a gay daughter who just received a PhD in Sociology and her education (both masters and PhD) included a fair amount of gender studies as well as teaching college courses in sexuality, etc. The latent homophobia in society disturbs me greatly, and for the record, I don't think anyone is mutilating children. There is a lot of fear and hype around the topic and not a lot of on-the-street experience in many of those spouting off about it.
ReplyDeleteI also have a trans niece was disowned by her religious parents when she came out at 21. She moved to a state where she is flourishing and I can't commend her enough for living her best life. But she was heartbroken by her mother's statement that she "will never accept this." Who turns their back on their own child? According to my daughter, more parents than you would think. So sad.
Last night they had a trans girl who had the top surgery---I think they called it where they remove the breasts. It was quite an education and her parents had turned their back on her. I can sure see a mourning period and a period of adjusting for a parent but a total disowning is so hard to imagine. But they also said it happens more often than not for trans.
DeleteP.S. I love Queer Eye and the episode where they all discussed their religious background made me cry, too.
ReplyDeleteDon't start me on this one. I'll rant. I don't rant about a lot but I have enough gay friends from my time in theatre (and then beyond, because it isn't limited to a profession as we all know) that it angers me to see the prejudice, especially from so-called "Christian" men and women. Nope. Don't start me. One day I will ask one of them why the movement chose "queer" as part of their identification. In my mind, "queer" has such deeply negative connotations -- odd, strange -- and why associate one's self with that? I can probably find that on the internet, too.
ReplyDeleteI wondered the same thing on using 'queer' but isn't that the 'q' in LGBTQ community? I'm purely guessing here but maybe they just want to own the label like women did with the word 'bitch' not long ago. (Queer has been used as slang since 1900 for homosexuals according to my slang dictionary). Or maybe its meant to be inclusive of all the older generation of gays who have spent their life times with that label?
DeleteYes, that IS the Q in LGBTQ and I just don't get it.
DeleteThe same people who consistently vote against their own interests are the same ones who are homophobic and judgemental of others not like them. Mary
ReplyDeleteSo true!
Delete